Shah Rukh Khan Box Office Power
14 Years
Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge (664 Weeks+) [Solo]
Platinum Jubilee (100 Weeks)
Kuch Kuch Hota Hai [Solo]
Mohabbatein
Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham
Golden Jubilee (50 Weeks)
Baazigar [Solo]
Dil To Pagal Hai [Solo]
Saathiya (Special Appearance)
Kal Ho Naa Ho
Veer - Zaara [Solo]
Silver Jubilee (25 Weeks)
Darr
Pardes [Solo]
Josh [Solo]
Devdas [Solo]
Chalte Chalte [Solo]
Main Hoon Naa [Solo]
Don - The Chase Begins Again [Solo]
Chak De! India [Solo]
Heyy Babby (Music Video)
Om Shanti Om [Solo]
100 Days
Hum Tumhare Hain Sanam
Swades [Solo]
Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna
Shah Rukh Khan last 3 Films Don - The Chase Begins Again, Chak De! India and Om Shanti Om completed Silver Jubilees and all 3 were Solo Movies. Just goes to show why Shah Rukh Khan is called King Khan.
Related posts:
Mustafa, Jazakallah.
Well, Mashaallah, we all fans know that how powerful SHAH RUKH KHAN is, there is no doubt in it. And just recently he said on his show KAPP, in answer of one contestant that why you still look good after years & years, so, he said, * Because I don’t think BAD about anyone, or he meant to say that he doesn’t have any ill feelings for any one.* So, I am happy that I am fan of SRK, not of someone who want to win at any cost either hurting or keep making target someone and become popular. Those people will have to suffer one day, Because GOD is watching.
In KAPP we come to know how much people are mad about him. Contestants just ry to impress Shah Rukh Khan rather concentrating on giving answers.
We also saw KBC 1 and KBC 2 Contestants used to give answers and go. As it was just a Formal show.
On the other hand Shah Rukh Khan chat with Contestants in KAPPSTH. Make them relax and let them to answer.
Mustafa!
You shouldn’t have included Saathiya and Heyy Babyy in the list.
SRK doesn’t need crutches like AB to make himself look good.
Everyone knows SRK is the BADSHAH OF BOXOFFICE.
lmfrz I have mentioned Saathiya as Special Appearance and Heyy Babyy Music Video.
I don’t think Main Hoon Na is a solo film
It is. It was Zayed 2nd Movie and Suniel Shetty was Villain.
JB!
Multistarrer is a movie where there are more than one star.
Zayed was and is not a star that is why it’s a SOLO.
Quote on SRK
“I’d rather sink trying to be different, than stay afloat like everyone else.”
“Awards that ignore me are losers.”
“I don’t kiss on screen. Period.”
“Cinema in India is like brushing your teeth in the morning. You can’t escape it.”
“Whenever I fail as a father or husband… a toy and a diamond always works.”
“Home is where Gauri and the children are.”
“I thank God for happiness and sadness… if you’re never sad you’ll never know how good happiness is”
“My daughter is more attached to her mother, while Aryan and I are very similar. Aryan does bully her but she is such a sweetheart.”
“When I see Aryan and Suhana, I see purity and spontaneity. Untouched by commerce, untainted by envy even as an actor, I grow simply by watching them. The truth is that I dont want to be this famous but absentee father. I want my children to flower under my care.”
“The children look like Gauri, but Thank God they have my brains!”
Yes we can get rid of Sathiya and Hey baby,because we dont need to take special appearances by SRK.
SRK has given so much solo hits to get merit.
Great work as always Mustafa bhai,but did HTHS celebrate 100 days ?i m not too sure .
Josh was also not a Solo
I agree with Rajeev.
SRK need no crutches.
He has single-handedly made so many movies great successes.
JB!
Multistarrer is a movie where there are more than one star.
In Josh, there was only one star. i.e. SRK
Chandrachud or Sharad kapoor were and are not stars that is why it’s a SOLO.
In this day and age, Shahrukh Khan is the biggest name in Bollywood and around the world. He built his success on talent and perserverance. He has also been given the title of King Khan. This is one Khan that will never be uncrowned.
When Rajnikanth was given the NDTV Indian of the Year award for Cinema, he said that there may be Baadshahs, but there is only 1 Shahenshah & that is Mr. Bachchan. Shahrukh stood up & humbly asked, “What does it take to become Shahenshah?”. Rajni replied smilingly, “Don’t worry Shahrukh. You’ll get there one day.”
And Kuch Kuch Hota Hai wasn’t a solo hero film either. It had Salman Khan. And it had Kajol who was an equal superstar in her own right. And Rani showing off those lovely legs. It was that & Karan Johar’s story & direction that brought the audiences in. Not Shahrukh’s mere presence. Don’t talk like kids!
ANALYSIS of Mustafas article…
14 Years
Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge (664 Weeks+) [Solo]
Kajol had equal role in the film. She deserves credit. True classication is HERO/HERIONE love-story with both having equal roles. Not Solo!
Platinum Jubilee (100 Weeks)
Kuch Kuch Hota Hai [Solo] (herione again has equal role, also Salman Khan in special appearnce.
Mohabbatein
Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham
Golden Jubilee (50 Weeks)
Baazigar [Solo]
Dil To Pagal Hai [Solo] (madhuri had the bigger role)
Saathiya (Special Appearance)
Kal Ho Naa Ho
Veer - Zaara [Solo] Zaara had equal role, also Rani Mukerji had a BIG role. Not to mention special appearances by AB and Hema.
Silver Jubilee (25 Weeks)
Darr
Pardes [Solo]
Josh [Solo] (flop movie)
Devdas [Solo] (average) Madhuri and Ash had BIG roles. Not solo.
Chalte Chalte [Solo] herione had equal role.
Main Hoon Naa [Solo]
Don - The Chase Begins Again [Solo] more like COPYCAT
Chak De! India [Solo] Story was the main-star. look at the opening of the film??
Heyy Babby (Music Video)
Om Shanti Om [Solo] Half of bollywood was in the film. SOLO? Dont think so..
100 Days
Hum Tumhare Hain Sanam
Swades [Solo] FLOP FILM
Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna
1conoclast!
YOU are talking like a KID.
Tell me one thing honestly, Did you know KKHH has Salman Khan before it released?
Plus, Salman had a special appearance in the movie.
It’s like SRK saying that Saathiya is a hit ‘coz of him.
“It was that & Karan Johar’s story & direction that brought the audiences in. Not Shahrukh’s mere presence.”
You don’t know a shit about movies. It was SRK and Kajol who encouraged Karan Johar to direct a movie. And they also promised him that they will star in it. Karan Johar was nothing before KKHH. SRK made Karan Johar, not vice-versa.
“And it had Kajol who was an equal superstar in her own right.”
Going by your definition of calling a movie a hit. Zanjeer was not an AB solo hit ‘coz Jaya was a much much bigger star than AB at that time.
Plus, Rekha, Hema Malini, Rakhee, Zeenat Aman were also superstars in their own right.
1conoclast ,
In KKHH ,salman had a very miniscure role and if we start taking Actresses in to consideration,then no star in history of Bollywood have given a Solo hit.
One more thinh,people go to watch movies in the name of actors not actresses.
No single actrtess can guarantee success to a movie on her shoulders.
In Hollywood too ,except Julia Roberts ,no actresses can guarantee success of a movie.
Shahrukh IS The King & The Shahenshah & The Empror ,etc ..
OR should I make it simple without names ..
HE IS THE BIGGEST “STAR & ACTOR” IN THE WORLD ..
HE’S THE NUMBER.1 AND WILL BE FOR EVER .. PERIOD .
and I’m very proud to be a fan for this amazing & wonderful human “SRK”
Rizwan Good Joke. Crack one more joke. You lost.
Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge not Solo. This statement makes me laugh.
Kuch Kuch Hota Hai not Solo. This statement makes me laugh. Who was the Hero? Shah Rukh Khan, no one else.
Devdas not Solo. What is the Title of Movie? According to you title movie defines Solo. So it is is Solo, your double standards caught.
Rizwan Lie is out in open. According to him title movie defines Solo. But Devdas is not Solo because Shah Rukh Khan was there. His double standards caught. Now whenever Rizwan post something we will show him this lie.
Rizwan,
You must be in your teens.Because when somebody is in his teens,he doesnt generally know what he talking about.
You must be aroung 15-17 years.because during this tenure people generally talk nonsense without any logic whatsoever.
Rizwan…Grow up fast.
5 years down the line ,when you would revist these posts ,you would laugh at yourself for your sillyness.
1conoclast ,
“”"When Rajnikanth was given the NDTV Indian of the Year award for Cinema, he said that there may be Baadshahs, but there is only 1 Shahenshah & that is Mr. Bachchan. Shahrukh stood up & humbly asked, “What does it take to become Shahenshah?”. Rajni replied smilingly, “Don’t worry Shahrukh. You’ll get there one day”"”
So what is the moral of this story,SRK has a fantastic sense of humor.Even in that programm, The finance minister and Rahul Gandhi were seating next to him and they laughed their hearts out on SRK s remarks.
Because In SRKs s statement a dark homnest sarcasm was evident and everybody present there undersdtood ,how correct SRK is.
Arun!
“Dil To Pagal Hai [Solo] (madhuri had the bigger role)”
This makes me laugh. Can you tell me how many minutes SRK was on the screen and how many minutes Madhuri was.
You are a goddamn AB fanatic.
You take into consideration the fact that most of AB’s successful films were multistarrers, but you keep coming with stupid arguments that the heroine had a bigger role.
You keep barking that most of the SRK movies are from Yash Chopra and KJo (which itself is untrue), but never see that most of AB’s successful films were from Prakash Mehra, Ramesh Sippy, Manmohan Desai and Yash Chopra.
Plus, if Devdas was average, then most of AB’s movies were outright disasters. What will you call a Nishabd, Aag and SR?
Shah Rukh Khan is the rage of the country he is a superstar and loved by millions of people….he’s a very very hard working actor doesn’t take anything for granted..Amitabh Bachchan
1conoclast look wat amitab is saying lolzzzz
Shah Rukh Khan is the rage of the country he is a superstar and loved by millions of people….he’s a very very hard working actor doesn’t take anything for granted..Amitabh Bachchan
rizwan look wat amitab is saying lolzzzz
Is it only 10 years? May he continue for another 40 years. He has been a very big success and it is an achievement that he’s worked with the biggest producers and in all kinds of films. And he shall continue to do so and we shall continue to work with him.-Yash Johar
rizwan and iconclast look wat yash johar is saying lolzzzzzzzzzz
Hi guys,
I find strange about seeing some of SRK films being depicted here as Golden and platinum jubilees… All this jubilee era finished with Amitabh’s time. It seems SRK lovers are desperately trying to prove how big SRK is. He is big no doubt but not bigger than Amitabh Bachchan. Infact Bollywood has yet to see a bigger phenomenon than Amitabh Bachchan. He was literally the one many army of his times which till date no single actor has been able to match up to. And still today, Amitabh is giving award winning performances in Cheeni Kum, Sarkar and its sequel etc.
Sorry, i would like to differ here that SRK’s film completed some sort of jubilees ever except DDLJ.
All this fight between SRK and BIG B is of no use.
All SRK fans should respect Amitabh and his stardom in the 70’s.
Similarly all the Amitabh Bacchan fans should respect SRKs stardom and dominance in todays times.
sanjay i agree with u
Mustafa i maintain.
What defines solo in my books is when the HERO towers above all others in the movie!!
That is what defines SOLO for me.
I repeat again. WHen the HERO towers above all others in the movie.
DDLJ - SRK was the hero Kajol was the herione. both in equal roles no-one towered above each other. Thats why in my eyes that is NOT solo. Just because some mad srk fans say it is does not make it SOLO. SOLO is when the HERO is ABOVE ALL OTHERS.
COOLIE. AB towered above all others, the rest were just in the background to decorate the film, herione, supporting cast, etc etc. Thats as SOLO as you can get. HERO is the FILM, FILM is the HERO.
No matter what you guys say, when as film is shared equally between HERO and HERIONE it is not SOLO.
Come to think of it SRK has tried SOLO acts, when he towered above all others in the movie.
ASHOKA. this film he dominated the film, the rest of the cast were in the background, the film belonged to him. Herione, supporting cast, etc etc were there to decorate the film.
What happened..??
THE FILM FLOPPED!
This is where you see the true individual boxoffice power of SRK in a SOLO film.
Rizwan share new joke. Coolie as Solo and Devdas not Solo. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. It is Vice Versa.
Rizwan kitne apna level aur down karo ge. Baby style of talk you are doing. Which makes no Sense. Grow Up. dON’T MAKE YOURSELF LAUGHING STOCK.
Come to think of it Amitabh has tried SOLO acts, when he towered above all others in the movie.
Agneepath. this film he dominated the film, the rest of the cast were in the background, the film belonged to him. Herione, supporting cast, etc etc were there to decorate the film.
What happened..??
THE FILM FLOPPED!
This is where you see the true individual boxoffice power of Amitabh in a SOLO film.
Come to think of it Amitabh has tried SOLO acts, when he towered above all others in the movie.
Shahenshah. this film he dominated the film, the rest of the cast were in the background, the film belonged to him. Herione, supporting cast, etc etc were there to decorate the film.
What happened..??
THE FILM FLOPPED!
This is where you see the true individual boxoffice power of Amitabh in a SOLO film.
I would say even Darr as a solo.
SRK completely dominated the Deol.
And Rizwan what you think about Solo doesn’t have any importance. Trade Verdicts matters and in that terms it is Solo. You lost and made fun of yourself. Grow up or people will put you in Mental Asylum.
“”Come to think of it Amitabh has tried SOLO acts, when he towered above all others in the movie.
Agneepath. this film he dominated the film, the rest of the cast were in the background, the film belonged to him. Herione, supporting cast, etc etc were there to decorate the film.”"
For Agneepath, BIG B got a filmfare award and SRK got a thumbs down for Asoka…That’s the difference.
“”Shahenshah. this film he dominated the film, the rest of the cast were in the background, the film belonged to him. Herione, supporting cast, etc etc were there to decorate the film.”"
I warn u mustafa that first get some sane information about Amitabh and his films. Shahenshah was a SUPERHIT by Tinnu Anand although it picked up late. If you dont know anything, u shoudl stay quiet rather than keep stinking everytime.
I would say that comparing Amitabh with any other x, y, z actor is illogical because there can’t be any comparisons to GOD. And Amitabh is GOD of indian cinema. The one who can sing his songs, the one who does action, the one who can do comedy alone, the one who can make u cry ala MQS, Sholay the one who can do family films ala Baghban and still move u, the one who has played all kind of roles with elan. That’s a true mark of a superstar and a superactor. The above specificatioons do ont fit for SRK and hence he can be compared with Akhsay and Aamir and Salman because there are so many like him. But noone like BIG B.
“”DDLJ - SRK was the hero Kajol was the herione. both in equal roles no-one towered above each other. Thats why in my eyes that is NOT solo. Just because some mad srk fans say it is does not make it SOLO. SOLO is when the HERO is ABOVE ALL OTHERS.”"
I AGREE COMPLETELY WITH RIZWAN…. SRK can’t carry the film on his sholuders. which Amitabh could and that’s the biggest difference.
To Mustafa, Imfrz, Jai
“”Here’s the hottest news doing the rounds of the industry. UTV, which has a slew of projects on floors and is still planning a few more projects, has signed Akshay Kumar for a whopping Rs. 75 crores. If true, it would be the highest ever price paid to any actor in Bollywood.
We have signed Akki for one of our forthcoming projects, but the price will not be disclosed. And we wouldn’t like to go on record to confirm the actual price,” he said.
But the fact remains that Akshay Kumar is the most sought-after actor in Bollywood today, in the same league as Shah Rukh Khan. SRK will have to reinvent himslef if he has to beat Akshay now becuase 2008 has not been a good year for him yet”"
So i ask when Akhshay is getting more than SRK, then how come Akshay is not KING, the BAADHSAH…he is the apt Baadshah of BOLLYWOOD now
Rizwan,
Your definition of SOLO always changes to suit Amitabh.
Basically what is the fighting all about??
1.Is it about who is the bigger superstar??
2.Did Amitabh ruled in 70,s or not???
2.Is it about IF SRK is a superstar of this generation or not??
3.Is it about if Amitabh is superstar in this generation too???
Ans.1.For question number 1,we cant say who is a the bigger star because they belong to two different generations .And the tastes,preferrences,economies do vary.Its like trying to find our who is a better player.Sachin or Sobers??
Ans.2.Yes Amitabh ruled the seventies upto mid eighties by no one before.
Ans.3.Yes in Todays time SRK is bigger than anybody
Ans.4.Amitabh is no more a superstar at this momnet.He is not even in Top 10.
For the se
Arun,
Now you are being folish.Do you really belive Akki is getting 75 cr for a movie.Thats bullshit man.
The costly movie made in Bollywood tille dat is 50 cr for JA.
The highest frossing movie is OSO at 86 CR.
If AK takes 75 cr for a movie .Then imagine what would be cost of the movie.150 cr???
Arun,
Grow up man.
Arun,
Can you please let us know whom you are quoting.I have read the original arti\cle and nowhere the author said anything about SRK.
Also he said that,,,”"The price is no where close to the rumours spread in the media”"
Why are you lieing???
Arun,
You are such a moron.
“”"SRK cant carry a movie on his shoulders”"”
Are you dreaming??
I mean even staunchest of SRK hatres wont say this.
You must be a mentally ill person.
Arun,
Akshya should be worried to stay afloat as his Tashan has bombed badly.
SIK songs are not making much of an impression either.
So Akshya should be really hoping SiK doesnt become another Tashan.
“”“””SRK cant carry a movie on his shoulders”””
Its a fact. Asoka, Paheli, One 2 ka 4 all these movies tried to show SRK in a major powerful role, but what happened, he fell flat…That’s the point me and Rizwan are trying to make that SRK can’t carry the film on his shulders. Give him romance, some comic situations, a good actress in rani or kajol and the combined product is success. Not otherwise. Amitabh was the one many industry, the longo which can’t be used for SRK. Do u get that, rajeev? DO u agree or not that SRK can’t be termed as one many industry. EVen SRK can’t sing his songs…BIG B was doing that as well and infact doing today as well
Regarding Akshay’s pay package, why ru not beleiving it when even Vipul Shah has claimed that yes Akshay demandig 50cr+ is justified because his films give triple the return. If the news had it been for SRk, we would have seen an article on ths forum…like “SRK breaks all records”"” and blah blah blah….
Except facts as facts ,Rajeev. U guys are running away from reality
Arun, Rizwan!
SRK is the KING of BOX-OFFICE, not the KING of PAY-CHEQUES.
SRK himself says that he doesn’t do movies for money. But he guarantees maximum returns on the investment.
And if he asks even a 75 crore, most producers will readily agree.
SRK or I am least bothered about how much money Akshay is charging.
Kasauti was one of Amitabh’s solo succeses but it was totally credited to Hema Malini.
The joke in trade at the time was “Kasauti is a good success thanks to Hema Malini’s stardom but if it had a better hero rather then the awkward looking lambu it would have emerged a real hit”
Trade Guide 1974
What maybe is not successful in India, looks totally different overseas and can be a total succes in Europe or the USA and the other way around.
By the way Mr SR Khan acts in every film of his exellent.
The audience just likes to see him in comfortable acts like comic and romance.
Arun,
Again you are exposing your foolish brain.
Till date AK as biggest hit is welcome which grossed 75 cr.
His second highest frosser is Bhool Bhilaya which grossed 50 cr.
Just let me know how on earth AK 50 cr pay package would have triple return.
I suggest you go to tution and check your mathematical knowledge.
Then come and shout here.
WHY SHAHRUKH KHAN CAN NEVER BE AN AMITABH
SCENE 1 - 1988
Amitabh Bhachhan, shooting with Shreedevi, Number One Female Star on sets of ‘Aakhari Rasta’. As the Heroine entered the set, Amitabh the most mannerly star, stood up, folded his hands in ‘Namaste’ to greet her.
But the Southern Culture pays more respect to the Directors and other Sr. Technicians. Shree Devi, went straight to them, exchanged greetings and only then, turned to Amitabh.
The Gentleman eternal, for these full SIX minutes, stood motionless, his hands still folded, smiling.
SCENE 2 - 2008
Shah Rukh Khan, with his ‘Allies’, in an Award Function, tried his best, and succeeded in demoralising and defaming his Fellow actors ( Insult, disguised as Wit). A Habit he has cultivated for years and carries on in home productions too (Om Shanti Om).
Recently, when Superstat Rajnikant named Amitabh and not Shahrukh as Bollywood’s biggest star, the latter immediately questioned him ” Sir, what does it take to be ” Biggest Star ” ?
Rajnikant’s reply was decent and modest. But he could have said -
Nothing succeeds like Success, but to sustain it till old age, one requires to be Amitabh.
Arun,
At this momnet 50 Cr pay package is not econimically viable to any of the stars let alone Akshya.
So these are fancy figures given only to make the audiences like you fool.
People like Akshya ,SRK and Hritik fix up a retainer and then some part of the profits.
If Akshya is taking 50 cr,why not it refelcted in his IT returns.
Infact SRK gave a IT of 27 cr last financial .that means his income is approx 90 cr.That too inclusive of ad earnings.
So a pay packet of anything more than 15 cr are fancy figures.Be it Akshya,SRK,Salman Or Aamir
Vijay,
You are gain defelecting the reality.
Ask any actress in the industry now ,they would tell you SRK is the person who shows most respect to woman.
I have nothing against Amiatbh on this point because i know how respectful to actresses .Ask Parveen babi for confirmation.
Rajeev,
Stop replying to Vijay. He doesn’t know a shit about movies.
He is just an AB fanatic.
Arun has cracked Joke of the century.
“””SRK cant carry a movie on his shoulders”””
Every day he is decreasing his level downwards. Now even Amitabh Fans are laughing at Arun. Great Job you are the best comedian on this forum.
I went through all the comment but some of narrow-minded commentators have not understood that what is Solo. If you think like this (the way you people have commented) no any films are solo. So solo means if in a film only one actor and one actress are in leading role in that case actor can be considered solo actor and actress also consider solo actress. Eg. In DDLJ for SRK that is a Solo film and For Kajol also that is a solo film. But Devdas is solo film for SRK but that is not solo for Aishwaraya and Madhuri like this HTHS is solo for Madhuri but not for SRK and Salman like this Bazigar is a solo for SRK but not for Kajol bcoz there is another charector as well. Like this in Deewana for Divya Bharati that is a solo film but not for Rishi and SRK. So the guys I hope you people got my illustration.
Solo is the lead male/female….or should actors do both?male and female lead???
good question
samia!
Solo is the lead male/female….or should actors do both?male and female lead???
“Arun, Rizwan and their Gang Answer for this for Amitabh this doesn’t apply. In any Movie Amitabh is there it is Solo be it Sholay or Veer - Zaara. Because Amitabh name makes the Movie a Hit. For Shah Rukh Khan He should do both Roles Male and Female, still we will not say it is Solo. For Him Solo applies as Directed, Produced, Music, Lyrics, etc by him and even acted alone in the Movie. Then we will say it is Solo.”
well said, mustafa
veer-zaara in no way an AB film… AB was there for only 5-7 minutes… in the song and 2 other scenes…
same with Shootout At Lokhandwaala
but AB fans are so desperate that they are stooping to new lows every day to make AB look good…
The fact is AB sucks as much as his movies today.
Phanidra,
I agree with your definition of Solo.Its spot.
In shoot out at Lokhandwala,AB proved what a joker he is.
He is was at his comican best in the movie although by default.
Hello Mustapha,
I am big, big one fan of SRK, I am French and am moderatrice on the site above, which is dedicated to SRK. I often come on filmikhabar to translate your articles into French and put them on our site as the French fans are eager for news of SRK and on this site, it does not miss and I love very much your articles.
I would like to know, why in your list: ‘ shah Rukh Khan Box Office Power ‘, Is it an oversight or it is deliberately ?
I thank you for your answer.
PS : I was not able to reach has hanging Filmikhabar 4 in 5 days, the other Internet users also. Had you a probleme? I was very unfortunate not to be able to read the newsof the site.
Mimi
i am a big fan of sahrukh khan but i can say that srk very much dedicated in his work. so his movie is quite well in box office. it is quite right that srk is very good actor but amitabh bacchan is quite good because of his presentetion
Rajeev on Jul 16th, 2008 at 3:11 am
“Because In SRKs s statement a dark homnest sarcasm was evident and everybody present there undersdtood ,how correct SRK is.”
No, they were laughing at his honest childishness. What you see is not the truth. The truth is that serk wants to be acknowledged as an Amitabh Bachchan. The discussion should end at that very point!